RL Music extras - Howard Jones Interview

Interview with Howard Jones
14th July 2004 - HoJo's Studio

- Richard Lawson
When you started playing in bands in 1976 to when you entered the charts in the early 80’s, who were your main influences up to that point?

- Howard Jones
The biggest influence on me as a keyboard player was Keith Emerson. I was at the Isle of white festival in 1970 when ELP débuted. They had played a couple of gigs before that but, it was the big Moog and firing cannons and stabbing the Hammond and, I mean, no keyboard player had ever been anywhere near as exciting as that before. It’s great that Emerson embraced synthesizers because he was the bridge between the old school Hammond’s and all that. He actually got out there taking this huge risk because you couldn’t tune the oscillators, and it made this tremendous racket, so he was a huge influence on me. Then electronic wise, OMD but not Kraftwork, didn’t really know them, until recently I’ve got into Kraftwork.

Tangerine Dream?

No.

I suppose Tangerine Dream and Kraftwork were perhaps more esoteric and electronic…

No – I was more into Rock & Pop.

You played one of Emerson’s pieces so can you tell me more about that?

Karn Evil 9 – I did the “Ringo AllStarr Band” tour and Greg Lake was in the band. So me Sheila E and Greg did this version of Karn Evil 9 which I’m so proud of because it’s got to be the hardest thing in the whole of the rock keyboard cannon I think to play. It took me 2 months working every day for a couple of hours just on that piece to sort of get it and memorise it and work the sounds up, but it was such a sense of achievement to play it every night, I mean you know– wow - with Greg singing.

Leading on from that, your particular stage technique, your style of not just singing but certainly on the keyboard playing is amazing, when did you decide to adopt that particular style?

It all comes from playing as a one-man-band, with all the gear around me and really was as a result of having to solve the problems that that presented me. As it was pre-MIDI gear and pre-memories in the synth’s I had to program the synth’s, input notes into the Pro-One manually before songs, set up everything and change the 808 to the right tempo and the right patterns and all this takes time and you’ve got to be mobile so I quickly realised that I would have to have a headset mike and I’d have to talk between songs and engage the audience and it all sort of evolved from that really. I wanting to make keyboards an exciting thing and not just the guy in the corner with spectacles who just doesn’t do much.

I think it was always that case apart from perhaps people like Keith Emerson & Rick Wakeman who really brought it to the forefront.

Yes yes.

Your professional carrier took you away from synthesizers a few years ago and I think it was in 2000 you were focusing on large orchestral work into Europe and then your solo piano work last year as well, what was your conscious decision to go back to your roots so-to-speak?

Anything that involves keyboards – I went through the Hammond and Leslies phase and I just wanted to do that for a while and then I did the acoustic tour with Grand Pianos on stage and now it’s very electronic again. I think that will probably continue because I’m really enjoying that. I do acoustic shows as well, like whatever keeps your interest and fans interest really and I think they like a bit of this and a bit of that.

So you studied Classic Piano at Manchester - when did you interest with synthesizers start?

Well, before I went to the Music College in Manchester, I was in a band called “Warrior” and our drummer worked for an electronics firm in Cressex in High Wycombe (UK). He built a synthesizer, it was a very primitive 2 oscillator synth, in fact I think it had only one oscillator and there was me with the Hohner Pianet and an old Lowry organ because I couldn’t afford a Hammond. I borrowed a Leslie from the drummer’s dad, and this synth, which was really out of control – you couldn’t keep it in tune, you had to wrestle with it but it was the start to making those sounds.

What year was that?

That would have been, I guess around 1974.

Considering you’ve been involved with electronic music for so many years, do you have a favourite synthesizer, be it analogue or digital?

Having done the 20th Anniversary show last year at the Shepherds Bush theatre, I put together, which you were kind enough to help me with, my original rig - a Jupiter 8, a Juno 60, the Pro-One, two Prodigy’s and an 808 drum machine, and between them they make such a fantastic sound. I think the Jupiter 8 would probably be my favourite. It’s got such a fat, wonderful sound, it’s just a gorgeous sound but you know for lead work, the Prodigy is hard to beat really… In sync mode it rocks, it roars... isn’t it great!

So it would still be analogue over digital?

I love the new Arturia virtual synth’s - the Modular Moog, because I never got the chance to even play one of those and the CS80v that they do and the Minimoog (I did own a Minimoog). I really enjoy those, I love them there fantastic sounding, so use what’s good: the old stuffs great the new stuff, if you look for it, is good too….what ever does the business.

Most professional studios will have a complete mix of the best of old and the best of the new so there’s no right or wrong about it really….

It’s great that people are still looking after the old stuff, like yourself, so that its still there and it still can be accessed if you need it.

The synthesizer sound itself - in terms of the potential of it, how do you think has that added to your creative processes?

Well for me it’s always about making sounds that people hadn’t made before, and heard before, because every one you know - if you think up to 1980 -50’s 60’s and 70’s people had done bands stuff really well and every one had taken it as far as it could go in my opinion. As a young person you don’t really want to be competing with that you want to set off on your own course so synthesizers for me, being a keyboard player, offer the opportunity for this huge limitless soundscape and a way of making your mark and doing something different and that’s always what its been for me.

We notice that your current rig, or main rig, is very much virtual analogue or software instruments and Laptop based, is that technology and the analogue technology important to your music now or is it very much more, going forward, using digital?

I don’t take the old synth’s out now because I don’t want to damage them! They’ve become very precious. I’ve just been watching this video of me using the retro rig and I am struggling to keep things in tune. I don’t really want to be doing that now – its all subject to temperature and things like that – having to hit the tune button on the Jupiter 8 regularly, yeah, you are going to forget aren’t you and also with the 808, so that you know, its approximately this tempo….it’s not I want it to be, it’s got to be… So it’s great, great sounds but for what I’m trying to do now, I just need something that is not too precious to take out on the road and is good and stays in tune and clocks MIDI clock and all that.

What about in the studio Howard?

In the studio we whip out the old synth’s all the time to get THAT sound and then process it with all the new technology as well but yes, definitely, definitely whatever - old and new mix it up.

I hate to ask this question but I think it’s important to know your opinion on the virtual & software modeled synth’s apposed to the original analogue equipment, what’s your opinion on the differences?

I haven’t heard anything that emulates a Jupiter 8 yet or a Juno 60 or a Prodigy. I think you probably can get close to a Pro-One, close, but I’m very interested in those because they’re my favourites. I really love the Arturia Minimoog & the Modular Moog, I mean I have never been able to have two side-by-side but they sound incredible to me and to have the Minimoog as a polyphonic instrument its fantastic. The CS80 obviously…I played one once on one of my tracks but never had one to own so I’ve got no direct comparison but I just love the way…I think they’ve done a very good job.

There are certain things in playing the original keyboards, I believe which is more to do with the experience of playing them, which generates ...

Ribbon controller and everything?

Yeah, the performance aspect of it that you can’t necessarily get using plug ins.

Yeah, that’s true, you can’t get that. One of the things with the Prodigy, you’re working those wheels and that’s all part of the sound and whatever else you want to be doing with the knobs but you can’t really do that yet with the virtual. I hope people are developing that but people are developing that so we will get that controllability.

I get asked a lot, will that put me out of business but…

I don’t think so. If you look at the way things are going, people want old, vintage, beautifully restored keyboards – they’re always going to want them.Surely you could say it’s the opposite, it creates more interest in those instrument because you go “oh man of if I could have one of these - is this what they sound like – wow! Can I get one?” No you can’t probably, you can’t afford it mate!

The other question I was going to ask you – considering the commitment you made to your USA, UK and tours in Europe generally, how do you find your keyboard rigs hold up in term of reliability?

I had taken the Jupiter 8, Juno 60 and Prodigy’s all round the world several times in the early days and I don’t think I have had anything done to them. They’ve always been amazingly reliable.

Who looks after that side of it for you now?

Well now Robbie is very instrumental in the new rigs (Robbie Bronnimann) and Novation is close to us that’s why we’ve got such a lot of their gear. They are local and I like having it local so you can go along and meet the people who build them and get to like them – that’s great. One of the things I always want to do: I want people to see what we’re doing, you can never see what keyboard players are doing because they are always like...keys are down here (in front of you and the audience)…if you’ve got it behind you people can see. I always love that when you can see what people are doing. Obviously you don’t want to have your back to the audience the whole time, and I don’t but when you see people changing things, setting things up it’s wonderful to watch. Why not have that, you know, and so that concept of the back-to-front keyboard rig was my idea and also it’s a sculptural thing where you’ve got things at unusual angles and making this great architectural shape. You’ve got to have that amount of gear so you may as well make it look good.

I was going to lead on from that to ask you if you had any particular anecdotes, stories from your days certainly using the old vintage gear, and maybe the modern tours – examples of things that are not in the public domain things that you’re allowed to tell us perhaps?

In the early days it was touch and go whether everything would work…always. The worst things were actually things like the Simmons drum machines which was a beautiful thing to look at with all the LED’s running across and great fun to program but it was very susceptible to temperature and the first live TV I did, the Simmons was right under a lighting rig and just overheated and stopped on live TV, in the middle of a song, It was my very first TV.

Musicians at the time were not really (appreciative of electronic instruments)…what I was doing was a bit of an assault on them and a lot of people thought a one man show with all these (electronic) things (was going to put them out of business) – it wasn’t that at all but Jeremy who was my tour manager, actually ran on the set, switched it on and off and got it going again and we carried on. I was prepared for that at any moment; things were always going wrong so you had to build that into your plan. Nowadays it’s usually things like USB connections, the computer side of it rarely goes wrong but does sometimes for some reason, if there’s a dip in the power or…

How do you handle that?

I don’t build in a safety mechanism; I don’t have everything pre-recorded so that you can just run that if you get into trouble. My way of getting out is to do it acoustically with Robin (guitarist Robin Boult), I’ll just sing and he’ll play guitar and we’ll do that so we don’t build in a safety net for the main rig…if it goes wrong it goes wrong and there’s ways I can get out of it by performing but I want it to be that it’s on the edge – that’s part of it. The excitement is, this could go wrong at any minute and that’s were the adrenalin comes from because if it’s all too safe then you become comfortable don’t you, and you just don’t get the buzz.

I remember in the old days back in the 70’s, the albums that were produced always used to have a list of the equipment that was used on them, synthesizers and various others: guitars and everything else. But these days, modern albums don’t contain that anymore so I was wondering, is there a particular reason for that?

Because every track was done track by track, so I don’t think we remember what we’ve done. I think mentioning the instruments that we used on the album, that’s interesting . . . okay we’ll endeavour to do that with this one.

Particularly with this resurgence of interest in what is used.

It’s been said that the big synth stage acts like yourself and many other artists of that era, the 70’s and 80’s – that it’s not vogue anymore, it’s not about that any more so what your own opinion and personal experience?

One of the things that I realised very early on is that the only thing that is valuable for the long term is to really establish your own identity of what you do and what you’re about and that’s the only thing that has any real value.

If you’re the sort of person who is trying to be like other people, well then forget it because it’s not going to last…you’ll be chasing that forever. You’ve got to find what is original and different about yourself and develop that, and then just go on that course 100%.

There’ll be times when you in fashion and times when you’re out of fashion but it’s irrelevant, you just do what you do 100% and always keep trying and develop it and not get set in stone – some sort of 80’s relic or something. You just keep trying to move forward that’s what I do, that’s my approach, to that anyway I don’t know what other people do but that’s what I do.

Have you found that you have actually mentored or supported other “up-and-coming” artists over the years?

I’m meeting a lot of people now, younger people who started playing keyboards after seeing me and now there successful in the dance world of whatever, and that’s great, that’s great, but It’s the philosophy behind it that’s really more important – you just do what you do fully and don’t be afraid to do that. If you’ve got an idea then go for it – get it done.

With the resurgence and interest in electronic music and retro vintage equipment – in your opinion, do you think this is just another fashion that’s going to come and go or do you think this is because people are now looking for diversity?

I personally think that that has been established and that’s it now, and there’ll always be interest in it… and the only thing is, is that there is going to be less and less of them because, through natural wastage the equipment will get more and more valuable I suppose…. gaining a credibility it never had at the time because it was like the “struggle” to get people to embrace what I was doing in the early 80’s.

Journalists were just not having any of it they just didn’t understand what was going on but of course now, people do understand what’s going on and there’s a new found respect for what was going on then.

What kind of things were they asking you, at the time then?

There was a famous review: They said that I didn’t have to turn up to my shows, I could just send the gear and it’ll play itself...

Press a button?

Yeah…well I would have liked to have seen somebody do that but I never got the chance to explain…it was just pure bigotry and ignorance really.

Because “real” music was bands with guitars and drums and…

Because the only type of real music has to played in the conventional way. Rock and Roll, always to me, was supposed to be the thing that broke the rules and was not conservative but actually I’ve found the music business to be the most conservative business.

Is that because of the issue that there’s money to be made?

Yes, it’s cultural thing. I think that the position of culture in our society is not valued like it used to be. Business is valued more and so it’s all about: go into the music business and see how much money you can make rather than be an artist and explore possibilities.

So I guess the last question Howard is, and thank you for talking about things we have been talking about today, what is your future plans for your music; whether it’s electronic or otherwise?

It’s interesting because when I did the 20th anniversary show, it was a bit of a chance to assess 20 years work really. I wanted the younger people in the audience, who had never seen the one man show, to actually see what it was like, so that’s why we rebuilt the rig and got all the synths back and got it all working again. What I found was there’s a tremendous freedom that was involved with all that because it wasn’t run by a computer and everything was done by hand.

There’s a tremendous freedom from that I thought, this is such good fun, wrestling with this gear to make it work. How can we bring that into the new live rig “that element” back in because it is a bit of a Holy Grail for me to make an electronic band like a conventional band where you can go off on a tangent if you want. You can go off, you can make this section longer, you can stop everything…whatever you want.

You can do that with a live band if you’ve worked with them for long enough. So how do you bring that to a contemporary electronic situation…and with “Ableton” (Live) we’re making big strides towards doing that. So now every show is different because there’ll be different loops coming and different fragment of audio at different tempos while still everything is still clocking to midi. You can go off on one if you want and this is the thing, this is what’s so exciting about playing live. I want to develop that more and Robbie and me are very keen on that, so that’s what we’re doing really making it so edgy again so that it can….

Get the excitement back as well as the adrenalin…

Yeah, yes that’s right, yeah.

Howard, thanks ever so much for answering these questions and we very much appreciate your time.

Great.

Thank you.